Louisiana Fats vs. The Landlord

[texascelticsfan]

When does the Landlord return from Witness Protection? I thought the whole Tony Allen gang threat situation had been resolved!

Glen Davis returned to the Celtics on Dec. 25th.

The Celtics record was 23-5.

Since that date they have gone 13-16.

I know there are plenty of theories abound, but I don't understand why Williams was relegated to 15th man.

What did Shelden do? Or does Davis have some Tiger-esque info on Doc that Mr Rivers doesnt want getting back to Orlando?

[Bogg]

To be fair, Williams was only averaging in the neighborhood of 4 points and 3 rebounds a game in around 12-13 minutes a game during November and December. Glen Davis replacing Shelden Williams in the rotation has little to do with the teams' reversal of fortunes over the last few months.

[hurdler]

The thread sounds like a fight. I'll take the Landlord in the 1st. Fats throws one punch and breaks his thumb and loses in a TKO.

Everybody knew that Doc would go to Babe and his 18 ft jumper and bench the Landlord as quickly as possible. If things are going bad just say the same things after each loss, don't make any changes. Don't call anybody out, no real trades, no changes to the rotation. Doc will always be doc, for good and for bad.

[nighthob]

Honestly, the record has a whole lot more to do with Garnett getting injured a few days after Davis returned. Shelden Williams is Perk's Mini-me, only maybe 10% as good. There's no reason for playing Shellhead over Perkins or Wallace, and he isn't quick enough to draw charges as a help defender. He's just a terrible help defender and mediocre offensive rebounder. There's a reason that he couldn't win minutes while playing for the dregs of the NBA. He just isn't that good. I would love to replace Big BBQ, but Shellhead isn't a difference maker. If we're lucky it's a lateral move.

[texascelticsfan]

Shelden was definitely a key part of the 23-5 run, yes there have been other issues since, but the record speaks a lot to me. I don't think you could definitively point at anything else this season that shows such a dramatic +/- as Davis versus Landlord, including KG going down. Shelden actually produced wins for the team, unlike Davis now.

[Bogg]

Shelden was definitely a key part of the 23-5 run, yes there have been other issues since, but the record speaks a lot to me. I don't think you could definitively point at anything else this season that shows such a dramatic +/- as Davis versus Landlord, including KG going down. Shelden actually produced wins for the team, unlike Davis now.

Wait.......you're serious? You really think playing Glen Davis 17 minutes a game over Shelden Williams' 13 minutes a game has had a more negative impact than Garnett and Pierce being injured for stretches or Rasheed and Ray combining to average almost 3-for-10 from the three-point line every night? It's okay that we're trying to compete for a title with Rondo as our best player, so long as Shelden Williams comes off the bench for 13 minutes a night?

[texascelticsfan]

Considering the minutes he see's, Davis' +/- is far and away the worst on the team. I won't even get into how others play with him on the floor.

Yes, I think Ray Allen's significant drop off in production is a bigger problem, but thats not going away. So, I wanted to look at some other issues in the team, particularly Doc's penchant for coddling non-performing players and benching ones that do. Remember Leon Powe had the same problem. KG's lack of production is bad, but it is not leading to losses the way Allen, Sheed and Davis are (and Robinson now).

The record speaks for itself IMO, 23-5 versus 13-16.

As bad as having Sheed/Ray go o-fer from the arc, not having anyone to rebound a few of those missed shots hurts more.

[nighthob]

Buuuuuut, Sheldon is worse at rebounding those missed shots. And you need to lay off the acid if you think that Shelden's 13 m/g was what pushed Boston to 23-5. One could note that the Celtics record change more or less coincides with Rondo taking over the team. But even that would be an oversimplification of what's going on out there. There are a whole host of items more important than one NBA 8th man rather than another. Rasheed Wallace's shooting, Kevin Garnett's re-injured knee and the ensuing degradation of Boston's defense, Kendrick Perkins taking a big, ripe **** all over the month of February. Those are far more pressing items.

EDIT: If someone would restore my late promotion I could reactivate the language filters...

[texascelticsfan]

I guess, it just seems to be the epitome of Docs rotations. Lip service to the media about "Defense earning minutes" and then handing Davis the minutes without even earning them. I typically look at problems from the bottom up, and if you can't utilize your role players correctly there's not going to be much when battling the ego's of the starters.

If Sheed never shoots a 3 again, I will be a happy man.

Rondo has to realize that he can't have the most FGA's on a team where he is the WORST shooter.

I think Perk is frustrated with the lack of effort from the Vets and is over-thinking his role. He's best when he can focus in on Defense.

What happened to our inside scoring? Although KG wasnt going to the paint that much before, Pierce, Rondo and Ray werent settling for Jumpers.

Edit: meant FGA not FTA

[Bogg]

Rondo's 79th in the league in FTA per game at 3.4 and tied with Ray for third on the team, behind Pierce at 6.0 and Perk at 3.9. If he leads the team in free throws attempted on any given night it's because the rest of the team is playing passive basketball and we're just not getting to line, not because Rondo's gunning for his own stats.

[texascelticsfan]

I meant FGA:

Ray: 714 (.462)
Rondo: 639 (.518)
Pierce: 567 (.460)
KG: 509 (.540)
Sheed: 495 (.404)
Perk: 402 (.614)

Adding in 3PA:
Ray: 427-997 (.428)
Paul: 343-754 (.454)
Sheed: 268-735 (.365)!!!!!
Rondo: 345-697 (.495)
KG: 276-513 (.538)
Perk: 247-405 (.610)

Actually the more you look at it the more disgusting Sheed's performance is.

Of course Davis' inability to score around the rim is pretty aggravating too.

[nighthob]

I guess, it just seems to be the epitome of Docs rotations. Lip service to the media about "Defense earning minutes" and then handing Davis the minutes without even earning them. I typically look at problems from the bottom up, and if you can't utilize your role players correctly there's not going to be much when battling the ego's of the starters.

I'd sympathise more if Shellhead were a good defender. He isn't. Davis is, literally, out there because he can grab offensive rebounds (which the rest of the squad is dog awful at) and quick enough to draw charges on defense. That's really all he brings to the table. Unfortunately for Boston, offensive rebounding is a huge problem.



Rondo has to realize that he can't have the most FTA's on a team where he is the WORST shooter.

The biggest problem with Rondo is that he has no game outside of six feet, and is such a poor free throw shooter that he does everything in his power to avoid contact when going to the rim. I'm praying that with Deron Williams making noises about leaving Utah that Boston could work something out there.


I think Perk is frustrated with the lack of effort from the Vets and is over-thinking his role. He's best when he can focus in on Defense.

You can make excuses for him, but the end result has been that aside from the Lakers game he's been awful. His recent blaming of his struggles on the team's vets was a pretty discouraging sign. He needs to get his head right, because right now he's the worst starter on a sub-.500 team.

[Bogg]

There isn't a rotation adjustment to be made that's going to fix this Celtics team. If they're going to get to a level where they can contend this season it's going to require better overall play from Ray and KG, Rasheed taking half as many threes and posting up twice as much, and a general change in the mentality of the team. There's no real urgency to dominate from night to night and no commitment to defense that compares to the 2007-2008 squad, regardless of physical ability to still play to that level.

[RAH]

I'm going to have to agree with those in this thread that have said that Sheldon Williams isn't an improvement over Glen Davis (or even as good). There is a reason he hasn't gotten playing time on earlier teams. And I also agree that the team's losses lately have nothing to do with playing Davis over Williams.

[nighthob]

I'm going to have to agree with those in this thread that have said that Sheldon Williams isn't an improvement over Glen Davis (or even as good). There is a reason he hasn't gotten playing time on earlier teams. And I also agree that the team's losses lately have nothing to do with playing Davis over Williams.

What it ultimately boils down to with Williams, and the reason that he's bounced around the NBA, is that he has exactly one defensive position, the same one played by Kendrick Perkins and Rasheed Wallace, and he isn't going to get playing time over them. Nor should he. He's incapable of defending away from the rim, so you really can't sub him in for Davis. Well, not without moving 'Sheed to primary help defender, but that would make the post defense worse. This has been the pattern for his career, due to his size & athletic limitations every team has at least one better post defender, and most have two.