Rajon Rondo vs. Deron Williams [Archive]

I am a Laker Fan

04-27-2010, 05:09 PM

Try to answer this honestly and with no bias please. Who is the better point guard in the NBA right now? Deron Williams or Rajon Rondo? Which PG would you rather have? And would you guys have won the championship in 2008 if you had Deron Willimams at the point instead of Rajon Rondo?

Thank you.

OB- wan

04-27-2010, 05:24 PM

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Williams>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Rondo

This questions makes my butt hole clinch. If 1 person votes for Rondo (even on a Celtic fan site) they need to be committed.

Celtics17

04-27-2010, 05:57 PM

Laker fan,

Who's better: Kobe Bryant or Kevin Durant? Please be objective.

meta4

04-27-2010, 11:20 PM

meta4

04-27-2010, 11:27 PM

doh doh, slobber, slobberhttp://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm276/pphrathany/StraightJacket.jpg

meta4

04-27-2010, 11:43 PM

rondo 1 championship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>deron williams 0 championship, rondo in 2nd season lead a team to the championship. williams is in his 5th season, no championship.

vct33

04-28-2010, 04:31 AM

Rondo is my favorite player but he's not in the conversation for best PG in the NBA. I know CP3 had a rough year but he and Williams are the top 2.

belgianfan

04-28-2010, 04:44 AM

Don't forget Nash and to a lesser extent Kid. Those two still belong in the conversation.

ThroughThatDoor

04-28-2010, 09:15 AM

Nash and Kidd are probably on the second tier of point guards along with Rondo, though I'd put Nash first of the group. Both are better offensively than Rondo, but both are complete liabilities on defense at this point.

hurdler

04-28-2010, 09:48 AM

Williams is better, but with Deron and CP3 they will be the best player on their teams and that rarely ends in championships. To get close great PGs need to have one of the top 5 big men to make a run. David West is not there, and Deron has had the most success when boozer is healthy. Nash had Stoudemaire. Of course there is 'stockton2malone'. And magic never won a championship after kareem retired.

With Rondo's contract there is room for 1 or mabye 2 max or close to max players, especially since Boston is a big market city and the owners are willing to pay if it gives them a chance to win it all.

vct33

04-28-2010, 10:21 AM

Nash is WAY to much of a liability on the defensive end to be in the conversation. He can't even guard bad PGs. I love him. He's one of my favorite non-Celtics. How can I not love a 6' white guy who can win MVP. Having said that, he's not in the conversation.

nighthob

04-28-2010, 10:25 AM

rondo is best as a play maker not a scorer. the ? is who is the better scorer or who is the better play maker. If u ask play maker I say Rondo. If you say scorer then I say williams. If you had a team with scorers like allen/pierce/garnett--then I would take rondo at the point. If you had a team where your pg had to score--case in point--utah--then williams is best. the stars are aligned. if utah and boston met in the finals--i will take boston. rondo---the face of the celtics to come.

Williams is both a better scorer and playmaker. The fact of the matter is that Williams had more and averaged more assists than Rondo, while playing with one real scorer. Put Rondo on the 2010 Jazz and his nickname would be "Pocket 'Toine" for his ability to score 20 points on 25 shots every night, while rolling up six assists and three turnovers. Put Williams on the 2010 Celtics and they would be real contenders.

rondo 1 championship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>deron williams 0 championship, rondo in 2nd season lead a team to the championship. williams is in his 5th season, no championship.

Rondo didn't "lead" the 2008 Celtics anywhere. He was a roleplayer on that squad.

meta4

04-28-2010, 01:28 PM

Rondo didn't "lead" the 2008 Celtics anywhere. He was a roleplayer on that squad.

As a point guard, I felt he did a very good job running the offense. Would you let Pierce/Ray Allen or KG run the offense. what about house or t allen - No, would anyone do - No. I think him and KG had very good chemistry that year and his alley oops to KG that season was unstoppable. Remember the alley oops, I bet KG is having wet dreams about those still today. sorry wrong image, lol. If Laker fans are sweating your point guard, u bet he's good. Would i ever sweat theirs, fisher/farmar, lol, whatever. you won't see me on their boards anytime soon posting up polls, I'm gonna sit back and watch rondo to his famous palm fake pass behind the back reverse layups for years to come.

nighthob

04-28-2010, 01:46 PM

He didn't "run the offense" though. He was a spare part on that squad and most definitely could have been replaced by someone like Kyle Lowry without that team missing a beat. He dominates the ball these days, but he certainly didn't in 2008. And, frankly, if you're arguing that Deron Williams couldn't throw alley-oop passes, you need to call your doctor and have him prescribe you an extra dose of reality.

Celtics17

04-28-2010, 03:07 PM

Williams is both a better scorer and playmaker. The fact of the matter is that Williams had more and averaged more assists than Rondo, while playing with one real scorer. Put Rondo on the 2010 Jazz and his nickname would be "Pocket 'Toine" for his ability to score 20 points on 25 shots every night, while rolling up six assists and three turnovers. Put Williams on the 2010 Celtics and they would be real contenders.

Rondo didn't "lead" the 2008 Celtics anywhere. He was a roleplayer on that squad.

I love your habit of plugging Rondo into hypothetical situations and then telling us what his averages would be or how many games his team would win. The truth, of course, is that your proclamations are purely fantasy and conjecture.

Reality is that in the 2009-2010 season, Rajon Rondo was the best player on a 50 win team. His averages of 14 pts., 10 assists, 2.5 steals, with over 50% shooting from the field, and more offensive rebounds than any other point guard in the league have made him a top three point guard and a top twenty player overall.

nighthob

04-28-2010, 04:02 PM

The question is who is better between Williams and Rondo, and the reality is that Williams averaged 19 points and 11 assists for a 53 win team, in a tougher conference, without a supporting cast anywhere near as good. There isn't even a contest here.

Celtics17

04-28-2010, 04:13 PM

Rondo's one of the top 3 pgs in the league, but Williams is one of the top 2, so you got me there. I'd still rather have Rondo, though, because of what he does on the defensive end of the floor.

nighthob

04-28-2010, 05:19 PM

Even more importantly, during the time in which Rondo was Boston's best player, the Celtics were a .500 team. So there's a big dropoff between the two players. And I'd rather have Williams because I would prefer to be watching an actual contender rather than a pretender praying for injuries to take out Cleveland, Orlando and LA.

Celtics17

04-28-2010, 05:41 PM

Are you saying that Utah's more of a contender than the Celtics?

nighthob

04-30-2010, 01:20 PM

I'm saying that Boston with Deron Williams would be a team with a great surrounding cast and a top five player, and hence an actual title contender. That's kind of the idea when you're looking to win it all.

Celtics17

04-30-2010, 05:05 PM

I happen to think that the current Boston Celtics are an actual title contender. They don't have a top five player, but they do have an outstanding lineup from top to bottom, kinda like when they won it all two years ago.

I also think that when the reigns are handed over completely to Rajon Rondo in a couple of years, he will be in the conversation as a top player in the league.

nighthob

04-30-2010, 10:59 PM

Is he planning on moving to Euroleague? That's about the only way he's ever going to be in that conversation. And two years ago they had a top five player in Garnett, a top ten player in Pierce, and a top 20 one in Ray Allen, and a bunch of roleplayers to fill in around them. That's not the situation this time. They now need luck and injuries to opposing players to squeak out a title.

Celtics17

05-01-2010, 01:29 AM

Who knows? Rondo's numbers might go down if he went to Europe. Ask Brandon "Baby Iverson" Jennings about that, but I think Rajon might do okay if he stays in the NBA.

Also, is there really such a thing as "squeaking out a title"?

OB- wan

05-01-2010, 08:11 AM

Also, is there really such a thing as "squeaking out a title"?

Absolutely, in my opinion. The Lakers did it last year. If KG was healthy the C's would have repeated. The Miami title was pretty weak. I know there are others but I just woke up and they don't come to my hazy mind. I can post more if necessary.

texascelticsfan

05-04-2010, 01:55 PM

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Efficiency.jsp?league=00&season=42009&conf=OVERALL&position=5&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=Y&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=

Celtics17

05-05-2010, 04:50 PM

Well, it's now official, Rondo is the best defensive point guard in the league by a landslide. Congratulations to Rajon for getting voted on to his first NBA All-defensive first team.

RAH

05-06-2010, 09:20 AM

Why do you say this? He didn't win this poll and he wasn't tops in the efficiency rating. I assume you are being sarcastic and/or ironic, but maybe it's true and I just cannot find the info anywhere on the NBA site. I'm confused...

texascelticsfan

05-06-2010, 11:16 AM

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2010/05/rondo_named_to.html

Celtics point guard Rajon Rondo was named a first-teamer on the NBA's All-Defensive team today, joining Kobe Bryant (G), LeBron James (F), Gerald Wallace (F), and Dwight Howard (C). Rondo, who makes the team for the first time, received 23 first-place votes, second only to Howard's 28. The team is voted on by the coaches.

Celtics17

05-06-2010, 11:18 AM

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/05/05/all.defense/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2

CaptChris

05-06-2010, 11:40 AM

Isn't Home-cooking Wonderful? Rondo is 1st team All-Defensive Team. FACT!

That wasn't the question. Question was who is the better Point Guard?

Rajon Rondo vs. Deron Williams

Answer? WILLIAMS! That is according to everyone but Celtic Fans.

texascelticsfan

05-06-2010, 12:11 PM

Go root for the Jazz then. Fortunately, unlike the All-Star game, the fans don't decide the All-D team, so we don't have T-Mac and AI starting. The coaches can't vote for their own players, which means 23 opposing coaches felt Rondo was the better defender, I guess leading the league in steals helps. Williams did not make first or second team. Perk and KG got a vote for first team.

The question is moot because they are two entirely different players, ones a scorer the others a defender/distributor. Its like trying to compare Isiah and Gary Payton, sure some people get caught up in the scoring but the game is played on both ends of the floor.

Nonetheless, the fact that there's even the discussion shows how far Rondo has come along, and he's 2 years younger than Williams as well.

RAH

05-06-2010, 12:12 PM

Thanks for the links folks. It was no joke! Jeeezzzz, I looked all over that NBA site, going to the News page, and all I could find there was a giant headline about "Pressuring Rondo one strategy Cavs should pursue." Sometimes I'm not crazy about Rondo's not staying in front of the player he is guarding, but playing to the side. Seems that fairly often the guy gets by him and he then is left trying to swipe from behind. I've heard Heinsohn criticize him for this too. But I guess he is pretty solid (and quickness makes up for a multitude of sins, of course).

ThroughThatDoor

05-07-2010, 11:41 AM

Well, it's now official, Rondo is the best defensive point guard in the league by a landslide. Congratulations to Rajon for getting voted on to his first NBA All-defensive first team.

Let's be honest, the first part of your statement isn't proven by the second part of your statement. He is the best help defender of point guards in the league. He has great hands and instincts to jump passing lanes and get steals when he's floating off his man. It's kind of like how Larry Bird was great when he could play free safety and float off his man on defense. His man to man defense has definitely improved from in the past where he was a true liability, but he is still not a shut down man to man defender which is the hardest thing to do and the thing that doesn't show up in your standard "defensive" stats of steals and blocks. The first two series have been perfect for him, because neither the Heat or the Cavs run their offense through the point guard position. If they win this series and play Orlando, it will be a different type of assignment guarding Jameer Nelson who has a very similar offensive game to Rondo.

texascelticsfan

05-07-2010, 12:01 PM

"People talk about the Big Three. But this is the Big One. The sky is the limit as far as I can see.”
-- Celtics legend Bob Cousy on Rondo

CaptChris

05-07-2010, 12:36 PM

TCF: Never let the FACTs gey in the way of a Judgement.

Regular Season -- ASSISTS -- Williams -- 10.5 -- Rondo -- 9.8

Scoring -- Williams -- 18.7 Pts. -- 24th in the league -- Rondo -- 13.7 Pts. -- 66th in the league.

Williams -- 47% FG -- 37% "3"'s -- 80% Foul Shooter

Rondo -- 51% FG -- 21% "3"'s -- 62% Foul Shooter

Steals a game -- Rondo 2.3 -- Williams -- 1.3

Rebounds -- Rondo -- 4.4 -- Williams -- 4.0

Now, Rondo had a heck of a year. He started as the WORST Foul Shooting Guard in the league, and has worked hard to get better. He is up to 62%. Williams is a Solid Foul Shooter at 80%. Williams had more Assists. Williams shoots 37% "3"'s -- Rondo 21%. Rondo gets 1 more Steal a game, and about 1/2 a Rebound.

So over-all Williams is the more complete player. FACT! Doesn't mean that Rondo can't improve. If he ever gets a "solid' jump shot, he will be a terror.

OB- wan

05-07-2010, 01:24 PM

I will say this: Rondo has shot a lot better in the playoffs from what I have seen. He might be on the path to becoming a decent shooter and that will make a huge difference in his game.

texascelticsfan

05-07-2010, 01:26 PM

"I've been watching the Celtics for the last 50 years,'' said Cousy, who retired in 1963 but made a brief, forgettable comeback as a player-coach with Omaha-Kansas City in 1969. "And Rondo is the first point guard since moi that I've been really excited about. Bird excited you, but he wasn't a point guard. JoJo [White] wasn't a point guard. He's the first since moi to get my attention."

Celtics17

05-07-2010, 01:31 PM

It's virtually impossible to be a shut down man to man defender at the point guard position. With all the pick and rolls that go on, you have to play good team defense to be effective against the premier point guards in the league.

A good defensive point guard is a disruptor who can get in passing lanes, swipe the ball in help situations, put some pressure on opposing point guards crossing mid-court, and track down loose balls to help his team.

I happen to agree with 80% of opposing coaches in this league that our point guard is the best at doing those things.

Celtics17

05-07-2010, 01:43 PM

texascelticsfan

05-07-2010, 01:59 PM

In the Regular Season, their win share percentages are as follows:

Rondo 0.156 (20.2% USG)
Williams 0.1777 (23.8% USG)

In the Playoffs, their win share percentages are as follows:

Rondo 0.2222 (20.1% USG)
William 0.2111 (24.8% USG)

So while taking 4 percent less of the teams usage, Rondo is actually putting up more wins than Williams per 48 in the playoffs. Certainly having Pierce/KG/Ray to reduce the doubles is important to Rondo, but with no Ak-47 and Okur, Williams usage did not take a huge jump.

CaptChris

05-07-2010, 03:06 PM

TCF: You got it. Rondo is the best. Perk is the best. Of course nobody else believes it, but that's alright. Cousy gave his Celtic answer.

Now, if Rondo plays for 19 years. He might catch a guy named John Stockton.

You know that 6'1" -- 170 lb. guy who holds the record for steals. 2.2 a game for 19 seasons. Shot lights out, from the 2 Pt. -- 3 Pt. -- Foul Line, and averaged 10.5 Assists for 19 years. He even played a little "D".

Now, that guy excited ME! Even if he wasn't a Celtic.

texascelticsfan

05-07-2010, 03:23 PM

Perk is the BEAST, but also the best, you forgot the A.

Rondo is a very good fit for this team and has elevated his game in the playoffs. Right now he is bringing more wins to the Celtics in the Playoffs than Williams is to the Jazz, that is supported statistically. Williams uses a larger percentage of Ball Usage, which also is a bad fit for Pierce/Ray/KG. The best part of Rondo's improvement is that he's done it without drastically effecting his usage %.

Rondo's best case scenario is in the Payton like mold and let his shooting develop.

I hated John Stockton, I dont care how good he was, I still hate him and the Failman.

Celtics17

05-07-2010, 03:29 PM

I was always a bigger fan of Payton, than Stockton, as well.

I can't argue with the Captain that Stockton was a great player, though. Add him to the short list of PGs who are better than Rajon Rondo.

CaptChris

05-07-2010, 06:00 PM

Want a SAD commentary? Look where Perk rates in the league Rebounding? Scoring? T/O's? etc.?

Hope he plays well tonight though!

Celtics17

05-07-2010, 08:56 PM

Want a SAD commentary? Look where Perk rates in the league Rebounding? Scoring? T/O's? etc.?

Hope he plays well tonight though!

Now this is the rank on Perk thread?

Shakerbaker

05-11-2010, 11:16 AM

I am not sure who's the better PG personally. What I can do is link Doc Rivers' interview about Rondo in game 4:

Rondo's Shots Were Amazing - NBA.com (http://youcastcorp.com/c/102/go/index.php?r=69)

It's from NBA.com, where there are tons of exclusive interviews, whom I am writing on behalf of. Enjoy!

texascelticsfan

05-11-2010, 02:39 PM

Another Simmons Quote:

By the way, would you rather have Rondo at $30 million total for the 2011-12-13 seasons … or Chris Paul/Deron Williams at $49 million?

meta4

05-11-2010, 09:17 PM

Rondo, F n Rondo, I'm drunk and i dont care, Rondo!!!

texascelticsfan

05-12-2010, 11:31 AM

You really gotta credit both Ainge and Rondo on that extension.

Ainge once again took a big flyer on Rondo that has paid off. First time was in the KG/Ray trades where he refused to trade Rondo and then again earlier this season where he gave Rondo the money and didnt worry about his attitude changing once he got the money. Rondo kept his nose to the grindstone despite getting a huge guaranteed contract, something a lot of NBA players dont do.

Some may not like the numbers, but Ainge sure as heck would be paying more this summer had he waited.

celticsfanz

05-28-2010, 09:36 AM

Rondo off course

Basics06

07-04-2010, 11:06 PM