What's wrong with the Celtics?

[mike]

Is it just me, or are there others who are concerned about the state of the Boston Celtics? Garnett is hurt; Pierce has been banged up; Big Baby was out, comes back, and has regressed mentally; Wallace has been, well, Wallace, always yapping at the refs and not focusing completely on his job on the court; Daniels is hurt....and on and on....

Team chemistry this year seems like anything but Ubuntu....

Is it just me, or do we have the most brittle team in the NBA? I hold my breath everytime we play a game...jeez, this ain't football, for crying out loud...

Speaking of injuries, don't look at Tony Allen the wrong way, he just might hurt himself again...oh, and then he'll all of those mental hurdles to clear before he's contributing again...by then he'll be in, what? His tenth year in the league???

Where is the focus?

And finally, why do we have to have Garnett on the floor to get maximum defensive effort out of the other guys? Remember that old addage - a real test of integrity is what you do when no one is looking? Same thing applies here - why play quality defense only when KG is on the court? Why not play it all the time?

Doc, when are you going to use a Bill Walker? The man can be an animal - oh, yeah, but he's another one of the fragiles, so it's hard to tell if he can play two consecutive games without going on IR....

Okay, that's off my chest - I feel better...I think...I'm just wanting this thing to start clicking before it's too late to click...maybe (gulp) it won't click at all...maybe that Big 3 window has closed and we just don't know it yet...it's a shame, too, becaue the player thought to be the most fragile - Ray Allen, he of the suspect ankles - is actually the most dependable player on this team....

[Falcon63]

I think we should just rebuild. I like the win-now mode, but I think we should make a move for a young #2 and move Ray.

[Valencia]

All the starters look really tired; well, KG looks more like a war veteran. Maybe it's time to give more and more time to the bench players.

Ray Allen is showing his career lowest level in the last games, but tonight... 3/15 fg 1/5 3p 2/4 ft it looks like he can't shoot the ball anymore!

Give the starters some rest!

[thuener]

Agreed... our strength is in our starters, particularly KG. They have lost 3 straight home games with the absence of Garnett. Also, being that Rondo is still a youngin' his stamina definitely shows over the older players. Start Rondo every game, then gradually work in Allen and Pierce. Big baby is fat.

[timpiker]

Something is wrong with this team and I cannot put my finger on it. I've heard lack of focus and maybe it is something like that. They are outhustled, outrebounded, shoot poorly from the free throw line and have a lot of turnovers, routinely. With KG in there Friday I did see a difference with Defensive intensity. I don't see the WILL and STUBBORNESS to win at any cost. I think they are just laying back until the playoffs. They've been told to just be healthy for the playoffs so I think they are taking it easy. Look back at 2 years ago. They had prove it to me games all season along and they did it. This year, when they get a lead, they cruise because they don't feel like they have anything to prove. And a guy like James Posey is no longer around to help. Posey was intense and cool under pressure. How many charges are we seeing? Without Leon Powe we take half as many charges.

I don't like what I am seeing because I don't think you can turn it off and on. Its so bad for me that when I see them go into their funks of just going through the motions, I fast forward til the end then see what happens in the last 5 minutes. Look at Friday's game - at the start of the game they were running and going all out on both ends of the floor. Lots of hustle. Then in the 2nd half they messed around for a quarter and a half. I can't stand to watch this crap. If it wasn't for Rondo this would be a .500 team.

[BSF34]

I think the key is getting healthy. If they still are playing like this and have the same health issues into March, then I'll worry. For all that's going wrong for them, they are the 2nd best team in the east behind the Cavs (who've been healthy for the most part) and 3rd best in the league behind the Lakers (who've had Gasol miss some games, but have also played much more home games than anyone else). I'm not going to say (yet) that the sky is falling because I see a few clouds.

[RAH]

I think we should just rebuild. I like the win-now mode, but I think we should make a move for a young #2 and move Ray.
I think it is a little too soon to panic (although I am typing this now knowing that the Cs have won 2 games since this thread started, so I am feeling better).

I see a lot of speculation about trading Ray Allen for Monta Ellis, which matches your "move for a young #2 and move Ray" idea. Just wondering what folks think about this. Myself, I think it would be a bad idea NOW (ruin team chemistry, etc), but it would be a really fine idea after the season. However, i do not know enough about the ins and outs of trading to know if that would even be possible. I'm sure others can clue me in...

Edit - oops, sorry, I didn't notice that there is a separate area to discuss trades. I'll look over there for talk about the Ellis rumor...

[nighthob]

Boston doesn't have the option of making the trade this summer. It's now or never.

[Kiss My Arse]

My take has been (and still is) that as different members of a team start to prove and solidify themselves, particularly offensively under a heavier workload, there will inevitably be a "possession crunch".

I believe what you have been seeing since KG went out last year (save for when Scalabrine was starting) is a classic possession crunch. IOW, there are not enough possessions to go around for the team as a whole to contribute at efficient levels. In a nutshell, the team is lacking synergy (Ubuntu.)

While it is true that some players are low-to-moderate possession players and can thrive on the table scraps that big dogs give them, it is also true that many players can't find their rhythm unless given more possessions. And that, I believe, is what is happening here.

For instance, under KG's absence last year (after Scalabrine's subsequent concussions), Glen Davis was inserted into the starting line-up. People praised him for his 'breakout' performances, particularly in the playoffs.

Realize that the greatest indicator to the human eye is the frequency of an occurrence happening. Another way it can be said succinctly is that one shouldn't be deceived by minutes and opportunity.

With that in mind, Glen Davis went from using 17.1% of all possessions when he was on the floor (Pre- and Post-KG injury) and 20.4% in the playoffs (Post-KG and, essentially, Post-Powe injuries.) Possessions opened up for him (and other players) because of the absence of other higher usage players. It should be said, though, that he wasn't particularly good in his overall performance. He was simply better than he had been and was doing it with more frequency and over extended minutes. It should also be noted, and I stated this on the board last year, as well, but Glen Davis wasn't exactly helping the offense by spreading the floor with his mid-range shots because he was cheating into the lane when other players were attempting to make moves, run the pick-and-roll, etc and was merely releasing on the brush screens, popping out on virtually every play on his side of the floor. I would argue, in fact, that he hurt the team with his play.

Conversely, there are indeed times when a lower usage player finally gets the reins taken off and is allowed to sink or swim under the burden of a heavier possession workload. A prime example of that is Kendrick Perkins.

Kendrick Perkins, for his career, has held steady as ~14.5% of all possessions used when he was on the floor kind of player (not to be confused with USG-R.) Last post-season, he was finally allowed a little more freedom to find his offense. He bumped his possession% to 15.7% and held his efficiencies despite the bump.

Fast-forward to this season, Perk has again bumped his usage%-- to 19.1% -- and raised his efficiencies under that heavier workload. And the increase in minutes did not hurt his OReb%, DReb% or Blk% (unlike Davis who wilted under the minutes/spotlight/what have you.) Another thing to keep in mind is that the Celtics use so few possessions as a team that even though Perk uses 19.1% of the possessions while he is on the floor, he is still well below league average.

As an aside, for those thinking that Perkins' performance is unsustainable, consider this simple fact:

MP 1749
P36 13.83
R36 10.64
B36 2.59
A36 1.42


Ok, back on track. Well, it's not only Perkins who saw a jump in usage. Rondo has this season, as well. The Celtics added Rasheed, another high possession player. Tony Allen has started to assert himself, too. There just aren't the possessions to go around.

So, ask yourself this. Who has the shortest contract of the starting five? Who in the starting five has shown consistently to slow down the offense and become ultra deliberate when his shots are not falling? Which player has a tendency to turn down passes to picking teammates rolling to the rim and open shots at the basket but then attempts to put the ball on the floor when coming off clean on a pick? Which player has a tendency to drift on passes to him instead of coming to meet the ball? Which player makes the worst post entry passes? Which player is the worst defender of the starting unit? Which player tends to "freeze out" other teammates?

Of the bench players, which moderate-to-high possession, middling efficiency, non-defensive rebounding, non-shotblocking post-player offers the least versatility, potentially might have value to another team and already stepped on his third point of contact multiple times in a period of just a few months?

My summation is that a catch-and-shoot three point specialist, with decent size and athleticism, who can remain efficient shooting the three on low-to-moderate possessions, would be ideal. I wouldn't care if his overall game is weak. It is not like we are getting incredible ball-handling, lights-out shooting or magical playmaking from Ray Allen anyways. If said player could merely contest shots and not shy away from playing help defense, it would be an upgrade defensively. Since he would be using less possessions, and had the athleticism to get out on the break, he would likely help the entire starting unit offensively. Since he would be actually trying on help defense, he would be an upgrade defensively.

As far as the bench, I would like to see a long, lanky, high energy, defensively versatile shot-blocker who can run the floor in transition. I am dreaming of you, Amir.

[hurdler]

Doc did great job of getting them to all play together in 2008, but he's spent the last 2 seasons running them into the ground. He's gone from playing 4 from the 'B' team together for stretches and when that hasn't worked now he's playing 5 B teamers with even worse results. There's a faint hope that KG can be productive in the playoffs since he rattled off a few 20pt games right before the last injury. We still don't know what we have with daniels because even when he was playing he wasn't himself. If those 2 are healthy things might turn around. Still holding out for a trade for Danny, but not holding my breath. I 1st round loss would not surprise me. Ray and doc have synergy in that they are much worse together than if they were separate.

[CaptChris]

Seems that all of the problems are because of Ray and Glen Davis. Easy targets. They haven't played well. The real problem is the re-occuring shortcomings of the players, beside the injury ones.

We have 2 starters who are amoung the worst Foul Shooters in the league. Celtic fans seem to say so what. Well Perk and Rondo at 59 % are right between Dwight Howard at 61 % and Shaq O'Niel at 51 %. Shaq & Howard are consider a JOKE at the foul line around the league! Perk & Rondo produce 4 Pts. a game from the foul line. This problem isn't about to change before the play-offs. IMHO

Celts lead the league in Technical Fouls! How many games have we lost this year because we lost momemtum because of DUMB Technicals? Doc -- Perk -- Rasheed are a piece of work. They let a single playchange the whole game. Pasheed leads the league with 13 Techs -- Perk is tied for 2nd, with Dwight Howard, at 11 Techs. Both Rasheed and Perk are in danger of suspension when they hit 16 Techs. This puts the whle TEAM in trouble.

The Refs LOVE the Celts because of their Fine Attitude!!!

Rasheed Wallace's attitude about playing down low is killing the Celts. He is getting 4 Rebs. a game. He has 30 "O" rebounds in 41 games. He is taking 5 "3"'s a game so he is living out at the "3" Pt. Line. This isn't a lack of skill that is hurting the TEAM, it is a stubbornness that says "I do my thing, and the Heck with the TEAM". You can't box out at the "3" pooint line.

How many of these things can change dramaticaly for the play-offs?

[seether05]

agreed chris, not to mention, how many times has Sheed wasted our opportunity to close out in a game by hitting a questionable 3 during crunch time. Im starting to think that DA shouldve just given that mid annual salary to McDyess

[hurdler]

This year our FT% is 75% compared to our opponents 73%, so I don't think that's it. Our techs our 33-19, a miximum of 14 pts over half a season. Techs are harmful, but not the main reason. Sheed averages 24 mpg and baby is 16.5 mins in less than half the games. The big difference is KG who is down 4pts and 2 rebs and has missed games. Not much has been said because there is the possibility or at least hope that when healthy things will be better. At 31 mpg that's significant. And ray at 37 mpt is down across the board including 3pt% which used to be his strong point. We have never really recovered from posey who could play big minutes with starters and give defensive relief at the wing. Our bench has become a 5 player unit that consistently loses leads and Doc continues without change. With the weakening of our team due to age, doc is doing nothing with his coaching to help the situation.

1. KG isn't the same, 2. Ray is doing less with the same or more minutes, 3. Doc is unable or unwilling try anything different.

[texascelticsfan]

Doc's lineups are killing the team. There are some pairings that should not happen but have been happening consistently. Tony needs more time, Ray needs less.

Rajon and Perk have not been taking the lion's share of the teams possessions and have been equally efficient to prior seasons with the additional possessions they've seen.

Ray Allen is now a liability on both sides of the floor. He demands possessions but is not converting at the rate he once was. What is wrong with his shot? I don't know. But its not going in and his legs just arent what they used to be. Reminds me of Dominique when he came to the C's, his legs are gone. Thats just on the offensive end, then there's Ray's Matador Defense, which was acceptable when he was making up for it on the other end. But when JJ Reddick is tearing you a new one, SOMETHING IS CLEARLY WRONG.

Sheed is going to be more and more valubale down the stretch, and is more effective in the post than anyone not named Paul Pierce right now. KG should be more effective, but is so off/on right now I can't say he is. The problem is Sheed is typically a 3rd-4th option and they dont feed him in the post. Instead we get to see Baby do an Iso and miss an ugly turnaround fallaway.

Pierce is not rebounding like he used to.

[OB- wan]

I had some optimism and tried to wish them back into a good team but it's hard to think they have a legit shot at the title with how they have been finishing games. They also seem to be taking large portions of the game off.

I think the stars can still align and they pull off a title but if they keep playing at this level they obviously will not make it very far in the playoffs.

I'll take what the 3-some gave us over these past 3 seasons but it looks like they have all fallen apart at once and they didn't get a very long run together. That was the risk DA took and I think it worked out. I hoped the C's would get 2 legit shots out of it but KG's knee didn't let it happen.

I figured Ray would be getting to the level he is at now about this time but his minutes didn't help extend his career here. I can't blame Doc for that though. Ray was probably going to hit this wall weather he played him or not so you may as well get as much as you can out of him. Ray still could contribute off the bench for a title contending team for a couple more years though. He'd have to probably come off the bench and be a hired gun playing on the perimeter with a dominant big or something like that.

PP might bounce back and have 1 more super star level season but I think he is in transition as well very soon. He's not rebounding and he's not playing razor sharp like he did the past couple of seasons.

KG is done. I had these grandiose theories that he would morph into a Kareem type player (to which many disagreed) but now I see the light that some tried to explain to me about his game being very dependent on his quickness and that is pretty obvious right now. He isn't strong enough to collide with guys like Shaq and Howard and his offense is pretty limited at this point. I wonder if he will hang it up in the next 2 seasons.

This place will probably get cranking again this summer as we all weigh in on what needs to happen with the demolition project DA will have on his hands.

[nighthob]

This squad was always constructed of mismatched parts. But two years ago Pierce, Garnett and Allen were so good that it didn't matter. At the moment only Pierce is still playing at that level and the mismatched parts are killing them. Their backcourt as a whole isn't very good. Allen's problems have been discussed ad nauseam, his greatest value to the franchise at the moment is as expiring contract trade bait. Unfortunately that value's been deprecated by Rondo's extension (since the poison pill provision makes it tough to deal him). Rondo doesn't seem to realise that he's playing on a veteran team with an injured PF. Can someone please explain to him that those alley-oops to Garnett are more likely to land Boston the fourth seed in the east than a title? If Garnett goes down this team won't win its division, much less the Eastern Conference.

[dutchguy]

Well, I'm new on this forum and also to the celtics. I'm from the Netherlands, Europe (so don't bash my grammar) were the last NBA game I ever saw on TV was the suns-bulls finals in I believe "92 (?). Got into the NBA again 2 years ago (the web's a blessing) and fell in love with the celtics.
Maybe I can offer an other fresh/outsider perspective.
what I saw, especially against the lakers, is a team that can still hang with the best. The weak interior defense from the beginning of the season was gone. Rebounding much better than before.
The extra pass was there, but only in short stints. This to me seems like the biggest problem and the biggest difference from the championship celts. On the bright side this seems to me more of a mental thing than a physical/age problem. Not saying Ray is not deteriorating and KG was obviously just a shadow of the pre-injury. But still....... KG isn't gonna be a franchise player for another 3 years, but him being healthy at the end off the season, come play-offs. Still very possible. Ray in better shape (he even played defense against Kobe) is very possible.

I'm holding my breath, but I still see a potential contender.

my 2 cents
dutchguy

[seether05]

LOCKER ROOM ISSUES IN BOSTON?

SOURCE: ESPN.COM

Celtics point guard Rajon Rondo hinted after last week's loss to the Atlanta Hawks that some changes needed to be made in the Boston locker room, but are there issues also growing behind closed doors in Boston?

"We gotta make a change and do something about it quick," Rondo said after the Hawks capped a four-game season sweep of the Celtics on Friday at Philips Arena. "Not a trade or anything, but just making some changes in the locker room, amongst ourselves. Every guy has to look in the mirror and hold themselves accountable."

Asked to elaborate his thoughts this week, Rondo went further, suggesting to the Boston Herald that some players might have individual agendas.

"I can't really elaborate on it too much, but I think we've just got to be a team with no agendas," Rondo told the paper. "We've got to play unselfish, you know? That's on defense and offense. You've got to want the best for the next man out there regardless if you're in the game playing well or you're out of the game not playing well."

Asked if he and the Celtics had tried to clear the air on this, he said, "We haven't really been talking about it, but you've just got to know.

"In the locker room, you can feel it," Rondo added. "You don't feel like it's the same continuity and camaraderie in the locker room as it was the first year. The first year, it was a crazy spirit in the locker room. But now it doesn't feel the same. It's not the same right now. We've got to find a way to get that back somehow, some way."

For his part, Celtics center Kendrick Perkins stressed after Sunday's loss to the Lakers that the players in Boston's locker room are behind each other more than ever.

"I don't think it's anything," Perkins said. "I know a lot of people are turning their backs on us, which is cool, that's fine with us. We just gotta keep believing. Everybody's got to be accountable for their actions ... Don't point the finger, everybody look at themselves in the mirror and go from there.

"We're cool, we real cool. There's no beef. Guys still talk, laugh, joke -- we've all got each other's back. That's one thing you don't have to worry about in this locker room, especially with [Kevin Garnett], Paul [Pierce], Ray [Allen], and [Rasheed Wallace] in here. Guys will stick together."

Chris Forsberg covers the Celtics for ESPNBoston.com.

[NorEaster]

The C's hit a rough patch and its doom and gloom from everyone. I'M tired of the fair weather fans here in Boston who could not tell a basketball from a grapefruit. This team has all the right parts to win the big one but it is injuries that ae hurting us but we will heal and when we do watch out. Last game KG looked to be getting back into old form and Tony Allen is playing great. I'M looking forward to Danials return as he will be big off the bench. Once Pierce gets over his foot injury we will be tough to beat. Plenty of time left in the season for the guys to gel and crank it up before mid April. So everyone just chill our day is coming!

[hurdler]

Last game KG looked to be getting back into old form and Tony Allen is playing great. I'M looking forward to Danials return as he will be big off the bench.

One of the problems is that the last 2 games of 14-6 and 19-6 for KG are considered to be getting back into form. This is compared to 19-9 AVG in 07-08. His role in the offense is shrinking. He is dropping off, and there is no big man to take up the slack. The other problem is that you and I are waiting for Daniels to come back and be a difference maker. I really am hoping. But as a championship contender an injury to a player of MD's ability should not make or break us. We are all hoping that the age and injuries and pieces start to mesh playoff time and we make one last run against those young lions.

[dutchguy]

"KG is falling off"
This is what I find interesting: Last season before injury, nobody said he's falling off. Everybody knew he wasn't the young kid on the block, but he had some years left. Now he's back from an injury, how can you be so sure he's falling off? People are acting as if it's a fact KG lost his legs, while to me the injury is just a random event. Can he get his legs back? No telling, so no reason to give up.

EDIT:
makes me think, there was this guy who was pretty good, but he went to play baseball for 3 years and when he came back everybody said: "he's just not the same" Maybe KG should be allowed to wear 21?

[CaptChris]

Check out what all the Celtics have done in the month of Feb.. Has the glow gone off Perk? Or Tony? Or Rasheed? It seems that some guys have fallen off the table.

Rasheed is 1 -- 8 on "3" 's -- 11 Rebs. -- 3 a game -- 7.5 Ptd..

PLerk had 17 Rebs. -- 4 a game -- 6 Pts. a game

Tony shot 8 -- 23 -- 35% FG -- 4 Rebs -- 5 Pts.

So last weeks producers can be this weeks non-producers.

[dutchguy]

Exactly that is what makes me think a mental thing is going on here, just as Doc implied today, i guess.
You can't tell me that these 3 guys have grown old overnight and will never get back to their old self (except sheed).

[setshot33]

EDIT:
makes me think, there was this guy who was pretty good, but he went to play baseball for 3 years and when he came back everybody said: "he's just not the same" Maybe KG should be allowed to wear 21?

Did that guy have a chronically bad knee?

[hurdler]

Did that guy have a chronically bad knee?

Did that guy have a gambling problem?

[dutchguy]

does kg have chronically bad knee?

[setshot33]

IMO, yes.

You will never again see KG play on the level of the 2008 Championship version.

His game has devolved to the point now that he plays like Joe Klein.

[CaptChris]

Got it!!! The game has developed so much that the basket is now 15 ft. high, and 15 ft. from the Foul Line.

That's why Perk and Rondo can't hit a Foul Shot. OOPS!

[setshot33]

Got it!!! The game has developed so much that the basket is now 15 ft. high, and 15 ft. from the Foul Line.

That's why Perk and Rondo can't hit a Foul Shot. OOPS!

You're exactly right Capt.

Rondo and Perk are not skilled enough offensively to carry the other two stiffs(Ray,KG) we now have in the starting lineup.

[CaptChris]

setshot33:
Rondo and Perk are not skilled enough offensively to carry the other two stiffs(Ray,KG) we now have in the starting lineup.

Sad thing is that Ray and KG will be long gone, and Perk and Rondo will still be clanking Foul Shots. We have the WORST Foul Shooting Guard in the NBA. Perk is saved by the other stiffs like Shaq, Wallace, & Howared, who can't hit a Foul Shot.

The other day in the Hartford Current, there was a note about Max Alden hitting 8 -- 9 Foul Shots in the 4th quarter in a close game. Max is a 15 year old Sophomore for Old Saybrook High School. Maybe he should be giving Perk & Rondo lessons.

[Rondo Fan]

why is it lately, when Pierce plays most of the 4th quarter, the Celtics lose?

[nighthob]

Clearly it's entirely Pierce's fault that New Orleans' backup point guard has scored about 80 points.

[hurdler]

Championship teams can score when they need to. In the last 10 games, 3 times we didn't have a 20 pt scorer and only once we had 2 20-ptrs. 50 games into the season nobody on the roster does it half the time (20 pts.) Pierce 19 times, Ray 13, Garnett 5, and Rondo 8, not sure about the rest. If we played the whole season like the last month we'd be talking about playoffs or tanking, we are not good right now. Sure we are banged up, but the urgency is long gone. In the playoffs it is as far rondo-pierce can go, it doesnt matter how many future HOFers you have.

[Celtics17]

Clearly it's entirely Pierce's fault that New Orleans' backup point guard has scored about 80 points.

No, only partially. Many of the ugly turnovers that fed Collison for layups certainly contributed. Mostly, however, it was the defensive pick and roll duo of House and Davis that really got burned early in the 4th quarter.

Anyway, I thought the abuse we took from a balding, ancient Slav was way more hurtful to the Cs in this one. I've raved about TA recently. He's played some nice D on Dwayne Wade, Kobe Bryant and Vince Carter recently, but got made to look like a rookie by Peja, Go figure!

[nighthob]

Peja has that whole height thing going for him, that makes it tough for the short guys to really bother his shots. But you're Rajon completely dominated the Hornets last night.

[hurdler]

How did we go from 22-5 to 10-13. Maybe pierce, kg, and allen need to take a 2 month break so they will be rested like at the beginning of the season

[Celtics17]

Rondo had his worst night offensively in recent memory, but defensively he did a good job on Collison when he was in there.

Credit Darren for taking advantage of the mismatch against House when Rajon was out of the game.

[RAH]

How did we go from 22-5 to 10-13. Maybe pierce, kg, and allen need to take a 2 month break so they will be rested like at the beginning of the season

I actually thought about that - sit all of them for the rest of the season - well, maybe not quite that long, but say 1 month. Only worry - we might fall out of the playoffs altogether, or have to face Cleveland early on.

[Valencia]

We should open our eyes: we are not contenders anymore, and we won't be in next years. Only a BIG move, that I can't even imagine, could change the situation right now. When we get the Big-3, we tought we would probably be contenders for 3 years, but we had really bad luck past season with the KG's injury. This year, is amazing how quickly all the players of the Big Three have changed their performance levels... much quicker than the Rondo and Perkins' improvement can balance.

Bad thing....

[nighthob]

Credit Darren for taking advantage of the mismatch against House when Rajon was out of the game.

Did Eddie House steal Rajon Rondo's jersey in the first quarter when Collison was dropping shots from all over the floor? And again at the end of the fourth quarter?

[Celtics17]

Did Eddie House steal Rajon Rondo's jersey in the first quarter when Collison was dropping shots from all over the floor? And again at the end of the fourth quarter?

Collison was 4/8 from the floor, 1/2 from 3, 2/2 from the line for 11 points with 4 assists and 8 turnovers in the 25 minutes he was on the floor with Rondo.

In the 16 minutes he played with no Rondo on the floor he was 6/8 from the floor, no 3s attempted, 2/3 from the line for 14 points with 5 assists and 2 turnovers.

Again, please don't get me wrong. I freely admit that Rondo had a very sub-par game in this one, but he did not get torched by Darren Collison. As a matter of fact, 2 of Collison's 4 field goals in his 25 minutes versus Rajon where on fastbreaks off turnovers (not Rondo's). The other two were a 3 pointer where Rondo switched off him and nobody ever got back to him (I'll blame Rondo for that one, if you'd like) and a back door cut for a lay up early on (that one was definitely Rajon's fault-he simply lost him).
Darren's two points from the line in those minutes came off an intentional foul with less than 30 seconds left and the game more or less out of reach.

In the grand scheme of things, this is not meant to change your opinion of Rajon Rondo's game. Pick on his free throw shooting or his jumper or his lack of aggresiveness in second halves. Fine.

However, getting torched by Darren Collison is not on the list of things that can be held against Rajon Rondo. Because, it didn't happen.

[NorEaster]

I can not help but wonder that with age what will become of Rondo' game when he loses say about a 1/2 a step? I was optimistic a few weeks ago but after New Orleans I have become concerned as to what is going on with this team. Prior to KG's injury last year we were on track to having one of the most dominate seasons in NBA history. What has happened since then? Yes, injuries but these guys are pro's what has changed? Is it a mental thing? A coaching thing? Some folks are talking that Ainge needs to make some moves and rumors about possible trades are all over the media. My concern is are we over reacting to the Celts situation? Could a trade hurt us more then help?

[RAH]

Yes, injuries but these guys are pro's what has changed? Is it a mental thing? A coaching thing?
I think the fact that things have changed so radically, so quickly, is an indication that the injuries are more serious than they are willing to tell us. In other words, just the fact that they are "pros" who should be able to handle playing hurt, isn't enough to overcome the degree of hurt going on. At least that is one theory, and it makes sense, I think, because otherwise it is a big mystery. "Occam's razor" theory, which states that the simplest explanation tends to be the best one, may apply here.

I do think that we may be overreacting, and a bunch of trades might be doing too much, but gee, when you think about it, this has been going on for about 25 games! I agree with Valencia above that while we thought we'd be contenders for 3 years, it just ain't going to happen, because of injuries.

[dutchguy]

When KG was just back from injury I figured he needed some time to get back up to speed, but he's straight up limping, still. I have to admit right now that the chances of him fully recovering are ..... well, don't wanna jinx it.
If his teammates know this already then that would explain why they play such uninspired, turnover-prone ball. It's because they know they are not contenders anymore.

Let's hope for the best

[timpiker]

there's lots wrong but KG being an invalid and not protecting the paint and the rim are #1.

#2 is no one taking charges like Leon and Posey.

and there's 3 to 4 more reasons like porr 3% by RA and RW..... nobody diving on the floor anymore...most players are worse than they were a year ago except for Rondo and Perk....and TA.

Maybe the #1 reason is there attitude. Notice when they lose a lead or get down a few points? They fold up the tents and go home. No drive...no ambition...they play like a bunch of babies.

[RAH]

I think it kind of feeds on itself. A few players get injured, so they start losing games. They start losing and lose confidence, so they lose some more. They lose some more, so they get down and lose their drive and ambition, etc. Only way to fix it is for everyone to get healthy and them starting to win some. But it looks like that won't happen this year. :(