The Michael Dukakis Interview
By:
Michael D. McClellan | Friday, April 1st 2005
New Englanders who followed the Celtics during the Bill
Russell Dynasty were equally passionate about the
play-calling of radio broadcaster Johnny Most. His
“Havlicek stole the ball!” remains one of the greatest
calls in sports history. What was it about Johnny Most
that made him such a beloved figure in Boston?
MICHAEL DUKAKIS
Johnny Most was an amazing guy. I think the thing that
made him so beloved was that voice, which may have been
so gravelly because he was a heavy smoker.
Unfortunately, the smoking is the thing that ended up
killing him. I remember running for statewide office
and turning on the radio to listen to Most. He was my
travel companion on many, many occasions. Just me
driving to-and-from a campaign stop, listening to Johnny
Most call the Celtics games from high above courtside at
the Boston Garden. He was an incredible person.
The late Bob Woolf began practicing law in 1952, and
became one of this nation’s preeminent sports and
entertainment attorneys. At one point he represented 9
of the 12 players on the Bill Russell-led Boston
Celtics, and later represented Larry Bird. In 1988 he
traveled with you in your bid to become President of the
United States. What memories do you have of the late
Mr. Woolf?
MICHAEL DUKAKIS
Great guy. Bob sort of fell into the business of
representing athletes. If memory serves me correctly,
he began by representing an obscure Red Sox pitcher
named Earl Wilson. Wilson had been hurt in an
automobile accident, and he had hired Bob to handle his
case. From there the relationship moved to Wilson’s
contract with the Red Sox. Back then, players would get
fired for having an agent, but Wilson wanted advice on
getting the best deal possible. He trusted Bob a great
deal. The negotiations between Wilson and the team were
held at a Brookline hotel, and at key moments he would
excuse himself to consult with Bob. The Red Sox did not
know this, of course, or I’m sure things would have
ended up differently. The relationship between Bob
Woolf and Earl Wilson is now looked upon as the birth of
modern sports representation.
You might find this interesting: My stepson, John,
worked as a professional actor and then actually ended
up working with Bob – he was responsible for running the
music management arm of the business, where he developed
several groups, including New Kids on the Block.
He moved to Los Angeles to open an office there, with an
emphasis on working with other established and
developing acts such as Boyz II Men and Marky
Mark & the Funky Bunch. He's now with Overbrook
Entertainment. As an aside, Bob's daughter worked
for me in my 1988 campaign.
The fabled Boston Garden may no longer exist, but its
legend lives on. Please share some of your memories of
this historic venue.
MICHAEL DUKAKIS
If anything gets written in this interview, I want it to
be known that I regret it very much that the Garden was
torn down and replaced by a new venue. As
governor, I pushed to save the structure, and the owners
were prepared to invest twenty-five million dollars in
it without any public contribution – and this was back
when $25 million was a significant amount of money. I only wish that
the Garden had shared the same fate as Fenway Park – it
may be 93 years old, and it may currently be the oldest
and smallest stadium in baseball, but there is so much
to say for preserving such an historic venue. To tear
down the Boston Garden, with all that the Celtics did in
that building, is truly an indictable offense. Red
Auerbach coached there. Cousy played there. Bill
Russell. John Havlicek. Dave Cowens. Larry Bird. The
team won sixteen championships in that building. The
FleetCenter isn’t the same – it doesn’t have the
mystique of the Boston Garden, and I doubt that it will
ever measure up in terms of significance.
There was a time during the mid-eighties when city
government was deciding on whether to renovate the
Garden or build a new stadium. As governor, I pushed to
save the structure, and there was $25 million of funding
available to do just that – and this was back when $25
million was a significant amount of money. Mayor [Ray]
Flynn didn’t see it the same way and pushed for what is
now known as the FleetCenter. What a shame. The Garden
was a fabulous, important, historic building with many
wonderful memories.
On January 29th, 1988, a record 61,938 fans turned out
to watch the Boston Celtics play the Detroit Pistons.
In April of that same year, the Democratic Party
nominated Michael Dukakis as its candidate for President
of the United States. What did that moment mean to you
then, and what does it mean to you now?
MICHAEL DUKAKIS
It was an extraordinary thing. Obviously, I regret that
I lost the bid for president – I made some mistakes
during the campaign that cost me dearly – but to be
standing there in Atlanta as my party’s choice to be
President of the United States, that was a feeling
beyond words to describe. And to have my mother there,
who was well into her eighties and who had immigrated to
this great country when she was nine years old, that was
truly a special moment. She campaigned tirelessly, so
that made it even more incredible. Like I’ve said, I
screwed it up afterward, but the convention was great.
Sixty-one thousand fans? For those who followed
basketball when I did, getting six thousand people to
buy tickets to a pro game would have been
extraordinary. Again, that’s another credit to Bob
Cousy and how he changed the game forever. Fans began
to care about the Boston Celtics, and soon the league
was off and running.
You have something in common with former Boston Celtic
legend Kevin McHale: You were both guest-stars on the
hit TV sitcom Cheers. Have you ever met Kevin, and what
was it like to play yourself on a hit comedy series?
MICHAEL DUKAKIS
I’ve met Kevin and he’s a wonderful man. In fact, he
supported me during my presidential campaign in ’88.
Great, great player with the best low-post moves in the
history of the game. Actually, I was involved with the
Celtics organization as governor. The team got involved
in one of my programs, “Governing Lives Against Drugs &
Alcohol”, and were very instrumental in its success.
The Celtics had posters made up for the program, and we
did a great public service announcement together – I had
to stand on a chair for the shoot to work [laughs]. I
traveled around the state with M.L. Carr, speaking to
schoolchildren about the program and giving away
posters. We must have visited thirty schools.
The City of Boston is in the final stages of the Big
Dig, which was conceived during your governorship in the
mid-80s. The Ted Williams Tunnel is a part of this
project. From an historical perspective, where does the
great Bill Russell rank in terms of this city’s sports
heroes?
MICHAEL DUKAKIS
I think Bill Russell should rank higher than he probably
does. Ted Williams was a legend all his own, so it’s
understandable that he has received so much affection
through the years. But I’m not sure why Bill isn’t
ranked higher in the minds of the Boston sports fan –
maybe it’s because he didn’t stay in the city after he
retired from basketball. He’s still associated with the
team, but he didn’t put down roots like a Bob Cousy or
Tommy Heinsohn. So his going off might have taken the
city’s eyes off of him, but that shouldn’t diminish his
accomplishments. The Celtics won all of those
championships because of Bill Russell. Sure, it’s a
team sport, but take away a Cousy or Bill Sharman or a
Sam Jones and I think the Celtics still win with
Russell. Take Russell away, and the Celtics would have
been lucky to win a single championship.
Bill Russell is extremely important to this city, and
not just as an athlete. His social awareness, his
intellect, the way he looks at the world – we need more
people like him. We need people who think things
through to the depth of a Bill Russell. As an aside,
his daughter worked for me in my law firm.
You were elected chairman of the Brookline Democratic
organization in 1960. You won a seat in the
Massachusetts legislature in 1962, and were reelected in
1964, 1966, and 1968. You were elected to your first
term as governor in 1974, and reelected to a third term
in 1986. In each of these years, the Boston Celtics won
the NBA Championship. Do you think this is mere
coincidence or, like some superstitious fans out there,
do you think it will take a fourth term as governor for
the team to win its next banner?
MICHAEL DUKAKIS
[Laughs]. I don’t know what to tell you. I can tell
you that, in 1978, I had a forty point lead in the polls
and the Red Sox were fourteen games up in the
standings. We were both shoe-ins; I was going to serve
my second term as governor and the Sox were looking like
favorites to win the World Series. Well both I and the
Red Sox went down the tubes that summer and early fall
[laughs].
As for the Celtics fortunes, I think it had more to do
with the genius of Red Auerbach and the play of legends
like Bill Russell, Dave Cowens and Larry Bird. I wish I
could take credit for it, but I think it’s pure
coincidence [laughs].
Final Question: You’ve achieved great success in your
life. You are universally respected and admired by many
people, both inside and outside of the political arena.
If you could offer one piece of advice on life to
others, what would that be?
MICHAEL DUKAKIS
Get actively involved in public service. I believe in
this wholeheartedly.
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